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Posted on the message board by Christine on August 11, 2004 at 06:50:24
PRICING QUESTIONS
Why is this stuff So Expensive? It’s just a cake, how could it possibly be worth $1000.!!!You can bake a cake at home for a few dollars.
What’s the difference? Scale and degree of difficulty are part of it.
Work on a well crafted wedding cake can begin weeks in advance.If you are using sugar paste flowers, they are intricately hand crafted, one petal at a time.
A highly skilled sugar artist will take great pains to mix colors to reflect
the true beauty of nature.Ingredients are scaled and mixed, lots and lots of ingredients.
Pounds of sugar, pounds of soft wheat cake flour, many pounds of butter and dozens of
fresh eggs.Care must be taken to insure the structural integrity of each layer that it may
support not only its own weight, but also the weight of the tiers above it. Special
formulas are necessary for the chemistry to work on larger layers. A knowledge of food
safety is required.Remember if fresh eggs and dairy products are handled improperly, you
run a risk of food poisoning. This requires your baker to have invested in a large amount
of refrigeration. At home, you bake and frost one cake. For a wedding cake many tiers
must be iced with precision, with special pains taken to insure that each is finished in
harmony with the others.Every scallop must be identical, swags must be precisely
measured to insure proper placement.All icings must be flawlessly smooth. Your baker
also has a basic understanding of structural engineering. 4‘ tall wedding cakes that feed
300 people are not magically held aloft be good intentions. They are built using the same
principals as skyscrapers. In building, it is called bearing pile construction. In a cake, it is
represented by the wood or plastic stakes in your cake.Your baker knows where to place
these “bearing piles” and how many are needed to evenly distribute the weight above. At
home, you place your cake on a pretty platter, but what would you do with an 18” cake.
Custom cake boards must be either acquired or created.Getting your cake to the
reception site is also a process. It must be timed so that it is set up in advance of your
guests’ arrival, but not so far in advance that it sits out too long. The delivery person
must be equipped to repair any possible mishap that might occur in transit. Once on site,
the professional will check the table for stability and level, and be prepared to fix any
problem with the table.A true professional has great confidence in their skills, but also
remembers that while it may be one of many cakes to them it is an incredibly special,
once in a lifetime cake for the bride.Wed Sep 3 2003 9:05:10 am
starts a VERY long thread! Great information...thanks to all for sharing. I hope it helps, Dolores
Letty...
why do I always undercharge???
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />
129.111.2.59I have been noticing that lately I am having a problem charging people what I think is fair. I come up with a figure, then when I'm quoting them a price, I say a lower amount. I've done this three times this week. What the h--ll is going on with me??? I just got an order for an 8-inch round and I said $15 should cover it. It's not bad, but I'll probably make about $7 profit. My husband told me that he can tell I'm uncomfortable with my
prices, because I talk about it even after I've given a quote. I thought I had resolved this when I came up with a price sheet. I have been having a problem sticking with it. I see my prices now and think that I'm overcharging. I normally charge $30 for a half sheet and $20 for a 1/4 sheet. My delivery charge is $10 ( I usually bring it down to $5). Are these prices reasonable? One of my other orders that I'm upset about is a darn ice cream cake where the customer wanted 1/2 vanilla and 1/2 chocolate cake with vanilla ice cream on top, with an edible photo of her son. She needs 30 servings. She asked if her son's picture was the only decoration I would use, but when I said "just tell me your theme and I'll incorporate it," she said she didn't have one. Not much help there. She couldn't even decide on a border color. I thought $40 was fair, but she thought it was too much. She finally agreed on the quote (which was lower than I had decided), but it made me feel like crap. I thought $40 was a very fair price because I am going to end up only making $20 profit.
While we are on the subject, how do you guys decide on your prices? If the cake is small, like an 8-inch round, do you make much profit? I find that my larger orders are much nicer when it comes to profit. I don't rely on my cake money for bills (thank God) so I don't suffer much from my undercharging, but it does make me upset when people seem to want something for nothing. I started doing this for fun, then people said that I should start a business... the rest is history. Maybe I should go back to doing only freebies. Those are still so much fun for me. I don't want to lose that. Thanks for letting me vent. I think I'm going to have to 'be booked' until I figure out why I think I'm not worthy of being paid a fair price.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />Megan
thank you
Sat Sep 6 2003 8:08:45 pm
151.197.92.241I have always had trouble pricing because I am way too hard on myself. We all know what you said is so true but don't always believe. Thank you for turning on the light switch and helping us realize that we are worth alot more than most of us credit ourselves as. I teach cake decorating and still undercharge, but the first thing I tell my
students is don't sell yourself short. So I am goignt o sign off now and do a new price list. Thank you for your wisdom!Lynn, Tx
Letty, me and you are going toFri Sep 5 2003 5:14:03 pm
152.163.252.229Me and you are going to have to toughen up according
to these ladies. I'm about ready to.. except that no one
around here will pay their prices. I could make a
fortune if I could get what they get.. I feel better
knowing I'm not the villan customers think I am. HaLetty
I know what you mean...
Sat Sep 6 2003 8:26:47 am
12.86.220.141I'm going to try my best to stick to my prices and not worry about not getting the order. Glad to know I'm not the only one having trouble with this problem. Have a good one!
Letty
THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE! (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 9:08:05 pm
12.86.219.77~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Janice
Strong points made in this thread Letty...
Thu Sep 4 2003 10:33:11 am
64.12.96.170Hopefully all the words of encouragement and advice will help you to stick to your guns. A lot of people may not want to pay those prices, but...
If you're serious about the cake business; there is a certain group of people out there that WILL pay that price.
You are not the local grocery store bakery and you can't mass produce or offer the low price that they do; so why compete with them on price?
You have to compete with quality or differentiation. Get yourself a USP--"unique selling point". This will help you to be more confident in your product and business.
Why do people pay $1 for bottled water? ~Convenience.
so...
Why will Letty's customers pay $30:) for an 8" round??Find or choose your market and sell to them and forget about trying to sell to all those unappreciative cheapskates.
Good luck
Letty
Thank you so much for your advice...
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:57:47 pm
12.86.219.77I do feel so much better about sticking to my prices now that I've read all these great responses. Thanks again!
dawnd (MO)
Wow!
Thu Sep 4 2003 7:06:24 am
204.80.222.12Beautifully said!!! I have been thinking about the same subject lately and you said what I felt. I too have printed your post to put up on my refrigerator. If we don't start sticking up for ourselves no one else will. Woman are still under valued in all aspects of their lives. From mothers to CEO's. A big part of that is our fault. And the crazy part about it is, without women to hold it all together where would this world be? You go girls!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Me
I get so tired of this same thread over & over & over
Wed Sep 3 2003 9:25:18 pm
63.138.236.186I used to be a "regular" on this board & for the past 2 years I've just been a "lurker." (For those who may have guessed, please congratulate me on my ability to "hold my fingers" during some of the humungous blowups lately. Whew! that was soooo hard to not type a WORD!)But this subject matter honestly hurts me to the core of my being.
Why do we as women undervalue ourselves so severely!?! Why do we allow others to do this to us!?! Did we honestly spend years perfecting our skills, becoming or evolving as artists, investing in equipment & supplies, courses and research, and becoming business managers based on trial & error only so we can just earn minimum wage? Or LESS THAN minimum wage? Come on ladies, start elevating your worth as a human being on this planet & demand a decent paycheck.
It all switched for me one day in an instant, listening to some guy balk at $35 CDN for a 4" high 12" chocolate scratch cake with liquer soaked bing cherries in ganache wrapped in pure modelling chocolate , with a few solid chocolate roses around the base, topped with a pure white chocolate bow, painted GOLD of course, because nothing but the best will do for your average cheapskate. My god that cake would cost me more than $50 to make if you included everything, and would have taken me all day too. And then it all just clicked. My problem wasn't the customer, it was ME! And I thought "he doesn't
need a cake. He doesn't NEED a cake!" We are all in the business of selling a product that NOBODY NEEDS. Nobody needs a wedding cake, nobody needs a birthday cake, nobody needs fancy cookies for their bridal shower, nobody needs chocolate dipped strawberries on valentines day. None of it. Nobody needs it. Everybody WANTS it, nobody needs it. Get that through your heads. They WANT it, they PAY for it.Kathyf wrote: "...stop and think of what some people will pay for a bottle of water in a gas station 15 minutes before they get home. And what they will pay for that undecorated piece of pie in the restaurant. Have you seen what a slice of cheesecake goes for at restaurants? A couple of cookies? A piece of cake with chocolate sauce dumped on it and called a fancy name? What will people pay for a candy bar? A packaged cookie? Oreos????" .....and I ask you, anything NECESSARY in that list!?!
SylviaB(IL)wrote: "In most cases, the storefront bakery that does custom work charges way more than most of us would consider. For example, last year I showed them a cake fromm InStyle Weddings to serve 300, and the same bakery quoted me $2500!" ..... I have an honest question here... why wouldn't your price for the same cake be the same? No really, forget this crap about "the average wedding cake around here goes for $175" or "you just can't expect those prices in this area."
Why NOT!?! The bride isn't trying to order the average cake in your area is she? No! She wants to order something out of a national magazine that goes for $2500! So that's the price for THAT cake. Simple. End of story. Got it? She doesn't want to pay $2500 she doesn't order THAT cake. She wants to pay $175, she looks at $175 cakes. The end. You don't go to a Mercedes dealership & whine & stomp your feet going "Waaaah! It's not fair! You're RIPPING ME OFF!" You can't rip someone off when they're trying to buy something they don't even need in the first place. Go to the Hyundai dealership,
honey!Your post seriously got to me for 2 reasons. The first is that this customer didn't try to talk you down in your price in the beginning, you did it yourself. Why? Do you really believe that several hours of your time + your art is worth $7? ***Seven dollars*** I KNOW that's less than minimum wage for several hours, regardless of where you are. What are you so afraid of? Why do you think so little of yourself? Are you surrounded by people who reinforce these feelings? Friends and family who balk at your prices too? Are you surrounded by people who just sit back & listen every time you get so frustrated &
low, instead of challenging & inciting you to demand for yourself the higher quality of life & sense of value & worth that an "average paycheck" would bring? You need to seriously examine & re-evalute your support system within your own world, and refocus their energy into something positive & beneficial & healthy for you.The second thing that got to me about your post was where you said, "Maybe I should go back to doing only freebies. Those are still so much fun for me. I don't want to lose that." What part is fun? What don't you want to lose? When they're free you get more accolades from people you love, or want to love you, and that's part of the reason you give them these gifts? Nothing wrong with enjoying people marvel at your cleverness or creativity and patting yourself on the back for it, nothing wrong with doing it just for the sake of practising an art you enjoy & letting others enjoy the finished result, nothing wrong with wanting to give a gift in the first place. But we all do everything for a reason, and sometimes, in the most inconspicuous of ways, we are undermining ourselves. Do you do freebies because people like you when you do freebies? And do freebies
give you the relief of not having to face putting a value on yourself? Is that why you enjoy them?Of course I know absolutely nothing about you, and if I've misread you in any way or offended please forgive me. But maybe if these statements are completely off the wall for you they'll make perfect sense to someone else. I hope at least one person on here really listens to me this time.
NOBODY NEEDS A CAKE. NEVER.
Windee
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sat Sep 6 2003 10:09:05 am
68.35.227.205I have never "met" a more sharing and wonderful group of professionals than on this board. And while I suffer from the same undercharging disease I realized from this thread how much it helps not only ourselves financially but all of
us fianancially when we charge appropriately.Can you hear the sound of prices going up!
Solunar(OR)
Thank you. (nm)
Sat Sep 6 2003 1:00:47 am
67.1.45.50Tracey
also, not everyone is a customer. You must know who your (nm)
Fri Sep 5 2003 10:03:24 pm
24.84.124.78
vw
I agree with everything except one point...
Fri Sep 5 2003 4:17:10 pm
67.100.121.18Re: your comment about a cake from InStyle Wedding costing $2,500 and we should all charge the same price... I don't agree there. A lot of the designers whose cakes make it into that magazine are in NYC or large cities in general where the cost of living is quite high. They are also using more expensive ingredients like butter for Swiss meringue buttercream (Confetti Cakes) instead of shortening, or Valrhona cocoa powder (Scott Clark Wooley) instead of Hershey, just to cite some examples of common ingredients people on this board use. When using butter, cakes have to be kept refrigerated which adds a whole other expense of maintaining a fridge or walk-in. It's also just more work and worry to deliver a buttercream cake than a confectionary icing cake. Those of you on here who use IMBC know what I'm talkin' about!
There is also a matter of replicating their caliber of work. A local bakery here advertises on their website that they can copy designs from magazines and while they don't charge the exact same price, it is still priced much higher than usual. While the cake RESEMBLES the original design, it's far from high caliber. Crooked lines, store bought gumpaste flowers with thick petals instead of expertly made botanically correct ones with very thin petals, airbrushed detail instead of hand painted, etc. While there is nothing wrong with store bought flowers or using an airbrush, they certainly yield a different quality of work than doing things like Margaret Braun or Ron Ben Israel. So if Jane Doe in Small Town, USA will be using the same high quality ingredients and has the same skills as Designer X in Big City, USA, she should charge close to what they are
charging, but still not the same amount considering her overhead is significantly lower. Basically they shouldn't charge the same amount, but they should certainly make the same profit.Aside from that, excellent post and I applaud. *clap clap clap*
Me
I thought that was understood
Sat Sep 6 2003 1:53:25 pm
63.138.236.186That I was referring to the same calibre of work or ingredients. You definitely couldn't sell a cake mix cake for $2500, you're right. Nor could you get that price if it looked like you "made it with your feet", as Hassrah put it. I would hope everyone has the ethics and sense of responsibility to give a customer the exact product they're ordering, or would otherwise recognise that, as a businessperson, they would have no right taking the order unless they were sure the could replicate the quality of the work. My earlier post illustrating the huge divide between wages was based on a comparison of equal products.
Thanks for pointing that out, though, because I'll bet at least one person got the wrong idea! It's interesting;
a couple of months ago there was a wedding cake article in a major newspaper here & the cake was SO
awful & SO overpriced I was completely mortified. It was maybe a 12" 9" & 6" pillared & was severely
tilting because the pillars were inserted right at the edge of the tiers, and there was a huge patched rip in the
fondant on all 3 tiers standing out like a sore thumb, and the decoration only consisted of glass or plastic
beadwork royalled the the edges of the tiers. The article proudly displayed their price for this monstrosity as
$1800. My price for the same cake, done PROPERLY, would only have been $800, and I'm considered
high end, so who knows! I'm not sure where they get off asking that kind of $$$, when clearly they haven't
earned it. I would be embarrassed to even let a customer see giant rips in the fondant like that, let alone put
a giant picture of it in a newspaper article.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Missy
That says it ALL!
Fri Sep 5 2003 11:52:53 am
137.118.214.92I keep telling my DH that I don't think I'm emotionally ready to do cakes as a business, for many of the reasons
stated in your post. He thinks the answer would be to name my business, "Very Expensive Cakes". LOL
Diane B. (CT)
This is now at the beginning of my cake book....
Fri Sep 5 2003 4:57:32 am
64.252.199.245and I will re-read it every time I am calculating a cost for a cake. Thank you for one of the best posts I've read. I believe as
women, we often undervalue ourselves, and we need to change that ~ when dealing with cakes or whatever else we do!!!This board is the best for offering support and encouragement, and this is another fine example of both!
"Me", don't you want to come forward so we can applaud the real you? You deserve it!!! Know how wonderful this has
been for so many of us, and what an impact it has made.It's funny, we may cringe when the electrician, plumber or car mechanic charges what they do... but THEY don't!!! As
written in another post... we need to throw the "I'm not worthy" attitude out the window, and proudly tell what our cakes
cost!Thank you - Thank you - Thank you!!
Diane
Letty
Thank you so much...
Thu Sep 4 2003 9:07:19 pm
12.86.219.77I really appreciate your honesty and wonderful words of wisdom. I need to seriously evaluate why I feel that my cakes
aren't worth more. I think that it is still so new to me to actually charge. I did freebies for nearly ten years before I even
considered selling my cakes. I have always done it for fun, but for whatever reason when it comes to getting paid for it, the
fun becomes stress. I guess with freebies, I allow myself to not be nervous about pleasing the customer and end up creating
better cakes. If I'm going to get paid, I see all the imperfections. Freebies are so much fun for me because I can 'create' to
my own liking. I like having free will when it comes to decorating and coming up with something new. Cake decorating is
my greatest creative outlet and I feel it is sometimes dearly affected by that price tag I place on my cakes. I guess I feel
that if that price isn't that high, then I have more liberties when it comes to 'the free will' aspect. I will definitely take your
words and analyze why I don't charge more. For my own sanity, I am going to re-do my price list and stick with it. I
appreciate every one of these great responses because I have been reminded of how valuable our work really is, even if our
customers don't need it. If they want it, then they need to pay what it's worth. Thanks again!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Micheline
WOW....just read your post and
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:55:14 pm
24.187.231.154it really hits home. My boyfriend is always telling me "this isn't heart medicine for Grandma"! And its so true! We sell a
luxery item not a necessity and if one person doesn't want to pay don't worry the next will. From the beginning we geared
our shop so that from the outside people know right away we're a custom cake shop not a bakery and as with anything else
custom costs more. I know I'm in NY so of course my prices are higher but I cringe sometimes when I see the beautiful
work on this board and then see the prices that are charged. We do undervalue ourselves and it shows our lack of
confidence in our abilities and skills. I hope everyone prints up your post and sticks it on the fridge, hell, frame it and put it on
the wall.....don't under value your abilities! Ok , my rant is over:)Patty(FL)
Just raised my prices.
Thu Sep 4 2003 6:21:36 pm
24.26.115.74I've already raised my prices. Thanks
Ladybug
YOU ROCK!! That was the most awesome post ever!! (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 5:03:15 pm
64.12.96.107cakegirl
I remember posts a while aback....
Thu Sep 4 2003 4:36:42 pm
209.94.219.63about not being known as the "cheap cake lady". If you start with low prices, it's gonna stick to you like mud and
people will always want cheap prices.
There are times when I wondered if I charged a client too much, at those times I just added more flowers, did a
little more work, etc to satisfy myself.It's important however to note that when you charge high prices, your work need to be of equal standard.
Don't do a cake that look like if you did it with your feet and expect people to be willing to pay top dollars.The other thing as "Me" said is confidence in yourself. If you open the door with a cringing, apologetic attitude
saying to yourself"Oh Gawd, they gonna hate this cake!I charged them too much!!", then believe me they'll pick up
on your body language and manipulate you accordingly. Then when they leave your confidence will drop to zilch
and you will want to throw away all your equipment.
So before you open the door, take a deep breath, throw away the negative vibes and greet them as if you are a
master in this business(although you might only be doing it for 1 week!!). That positive feeling will work for you!!
I don't do cakes below a certain price, if you dont like my prices, then baby go get your cake elsewhere!!Letty
great points, thanks! (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:55:17 pm
12.86.219.77Beth(OH)
Me, may I copy and paste your
Thu Sep 4 2003 2:35:06 pm
209.239.158.31post for another cake board? It is excellent and I would like to share it with others. Beth@oneintheovencakes.com
Me
Re: Me, may I copy and paste your
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:47:23 pm
63.138.236.186Well if I knew I'd get such a positive response I would have used my real name!
....Back to lurking.
SylviaB(IL)
Thanks for the words of reason!!! nt (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 11:15:55 am
128.248.111.150~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
Carol in AH,MI
Holy Moley Olley!!!! ---->
Thu Sep 4 2003 4:57:11 am
67.105.219.26That's it! From now on......my price is my price. Period. Take it or leave it.
Funny thing - just last night I had a discussion with another sugar artist who has sort of been my mentor for the last couple
of years, and SHE said, "Think about what you pay in a nice restaurant for a slice of pie"......
Great minds DO think alike.I'm printing your post and it's going into my own personal cake decorating "bible"!
Seashell in Sweden
hear hear
Thu Sep 4 2003 12:21:12 am
62.181.67.138I think this is the best post, ever!!!!!
cb
ditto ......great words of wisdom....we
Thu Sep 4 2003 4:44:25 am
150.176.8.92are worth every penny we ask for
Kathyf
Re: hear hear
Thu Sep 4 2003 1:19:51 am
65.204.110.97I think she deserves a whole bowl of liquor soaked bing cherries topped with an Oreo after putting that
much wisdom in one post ;o}Shelley
Re: hear hear
Thu Sep 4 2003 1:56:25 am
62.181.67.138LOLOLOL,
ain't it the truth!Lynn, Tx
Re: why do I always undercharge???
Wed Sep 3 2003 7:32:15 pm
152.163.252.166I just had someone turn me down at $65.00 for a
l6 inch round, l0 in round on top, cream cheese icing,
basketweave with white chocolate dipped strawberries.
Normally I would probably be able to get about $45.00
for this cake but after reading some of your prices I
decided to take a chance and I was right. Too much for
this town. Now I remember why I quit doing wedding
cakes. Was I asking too much at 65.00?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
vw
Re: why do I always undercharge???
Fri Sep 5 2003 3:48:40 pm
67.100.121.18Considering I get $100 for a 9", I definitely don't think you asked too much.
Kris
How do you command such high prices?
Sat Sep 6 2003 8:19:47 am
24.188.34.67I'm just curious...are you a specialty baker or something? Do you specialize in vegan cakes?
Kris
This has got to be the craziest thing I've heard all day...
Fri Sep 5 2003 3:32:01 pm
24.188.34.67My two layer 16 inch alone is $100. I live in NYC where of course prices are higher, but a 16 inch round with a 10 inch on
top with cream cheese icing, basketweave and white chocolate dipped strawberries is worth a hell of a lot more than $65
anywhere in the United States.My goodness, did someone really turn you down for charging $65.00??? They can go to the devil for all I'd care...they
couldn't get a bargain like that even in a price club or local half-ass bakery. What makes them think they can get that from
YOU? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Lynn
Re: This has got to be the craziest thing I've heard all da
Fri Sep 5 2003 5:09:41 pm
152.163.252.198It wasn't a two layer. It was one l6 and one l0
Kris
Oh okay but still...
Sat Sep 6 2003 8:20:28 am
24.188.34.67I think you could have gotten more than $65.00. :)
LynneCA
NO WAY were you asking too much! (nm)
Fri Sep 5 2003 12:43:52 pm
206.82.242.8Letty
you definitely weren't asking too much (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:48:30 pm
12.86.219.77Peggyp TX
Definitely not too much (m)
Thu Sep 4 2003 9:50:02 am
208.35.38.11I would get at least that much for a 10/16 without the strawberries and they would have to pick it up.
Solunar(OR)
No, you weren't asking too much. (nm)
Wed Sep 3 2003 7:48:01 pm
67.1.35.95
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kris
Don't let people...
Wed Sep 3 2003 3:57:53 pm
24.188.34.67guilt you into lowering the price. Your time and skill are very valuable. When you allow someone to haggle you into lowering
the price, you're sending some very bad messages that:1. People can take advantage of you.
2. You must not value yourself too much.
3. Your product must not really be that good if you're willing to sell yourself so cheap.
4. If they do it once, they'll continue to do it in the future. And they may spread the word that you're easy to "get over" on.I hope I don't sound harsh, but people can only get away with what you allow them to get away with. And you'll always
have those out there who will try to get something on the cheap.To be honest, I've only recently started charging for my cakes and I struggled to set my prices. I finally did it though. Yes,
they're higher than the local bakery or price club. However I figure that my work speaks for itself and my customers will
realize that:1. He/She is getting a quality product, custom made for them to their specifications
2. They have a myriad of flavors to choose from that the local bakery doesn't offer.
3. It tastes and looks better since I use real butter & cream in my buttercream.If someone doesn't want to pay my price or they balk, then they can go to the local bakery, supermarket or price club. I
don't want their business and refuse to stress over that type of customer.I don't do this as a full-time business so it's not crucial for me to make cakes. It's something I enjoy doing. I don't want to
get burned out again (this happened to me about 6 years ago and I went on cake hiatus) so I'm charging what I think I'm
worth. It's okay to discount once in a while for a family member or close friend but don't get in the habit of doing it for
everyone.Stick to your price list and you'll feel a lot better about yourself. I recently made up a little brochure and have published
prices on my website. So hopefully that will weed out the cheapskates. Perhaps you can do the same so people will know in
advance what you charge.Sorry this post is long, but I truly feel for you. Like I said, I hope I'm not too harsh but I like to tell it like it is and I hate to
see my fellow home based cake decorators get taken advantage of.
Letty
thank you so much for your response...
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:42:20 am
12.86.222.129I really appreciate your opinion and your honesty. You are so right. I needed to hear what you said. I thank
you so much for taking the time to write and to share your experiences with me. I have taken your advice
to heart, and it really will help me when I quote in the future. Hope you have a great day!
SylviaB(IL)
I have moments where I'm in the same boat...
Wed Sep 3 2003 2:51:44 pm
128.248.111.150When you know that the cake biz is not the "full-time" job, then pricing can sometimes become lax. What may help you is to
have a price listing near the phone or when you meet with customers. You are less likely to lower your pricing. For cakes
that are hard to price, I show a picture of a cake to a popular bakery nearby and use that as a guide for pricing. In most
cases, the storefront bakery that does custom work charges way more than most of us would consider. For example, last
year I showed them a cake fromm InStyle Weddings to serve 300, and the same bakery quoted me $2500! Good luck.
Letty
thank you for your response (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:46:52 pm
12.86.219.77~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathyf
Re: why do I always undercharge???
Wed Sep 3 2003 1:55:05 pm
65.204.110.35I went through the same thing for several years. I stuck to my party cake prices with no problem but when extras were
added I usually undercharged. And I do rely on my income since this is a full time business for me. Make that a double full
time business ;o} I always hated raising prices because I figured I would lose business. I did lose a few customers but
gained far more every time my prices went up. I don't base my prices on 3 or 4 times the amount of ingredients because the
time involved varies way too much. For example, a cheesecake costs far more than an average cake but is much faster to
do.
What finally helped me get over feeling I was overcharging was figuring out what I was making per hour. And don't just
think the cost of ingredients. You have to consider , electricity, wear and tear on appliances, income taxes, self employment
taxes, insurance, packaging, etc. After you figure a fair hourly wage into your cake prices stop and think of what some
people will pay for a bottle of water in a gas station 15 minutes before they get home. And what they will pay for that
undecorated piece of pie in the restaurant. Have you seen what a slice of cheesecake goes for at restaurants? A couple of
cookies? A piece of cake with chocolate sauce dumped on it and called a fancy name? What will people pay for a candy
bar? A packaged cookie? Oreos????
Now when you go to price that next cake think of all those less than stellar things ( I don't mean your precious Orea's
Seashelley:o}) we spend ridiculous amounts on and think about what your TIME and your product are worth. If they don't
like your price they can find a cake elsewhere and you can do something fun with your family!!!
Letty
That was wonderfully worded...thanks a bunch...
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:45:23 pm
12.86.219.77I'll definitely consider your words of wisdom next time I feel like giving discounts. Thanks again!
Charlotte
That sums it up very nicely.
Wed Sep 3 2003 4:14:18 pm
198.81.26.106I doubt if good decorators who put their heart into their cakes ever really get paid what it's worth, especially in the hrs. spent
on it. No craft does.Ladybug
That was so very well put. I agree completley. (nm)
Wed Sep 3 2003 2:14:32 pm
205.188.209.5Ladybug
Re: why do I always undercharge???
Wed Sep 3 2003 1:52:38 pm
205.188.209.5I hear you loud and clear. When I made cakes for a living I made myself miserable over this. People treat you a lot
differently when they see you as a business. They really have no idea what all you put into it. I think they are so used to just
walking up to the bakery counter at the store and taking a cake home for next to nothing. Of course they are paying for
what they get there....yucky and ugly. teheI think maybe when you do it from home, they kind of feel badly for infringing (sp?) upon you, so they tend to be willing to
pay a little more.Since I don't make cakes to pay the bills anymore (they ended up making more bills for me) I am very selective as to whom
I do a cake for. It has to be family or someone willing to pay what I want, or I just tell them that I am booked up. For the
customers that caused me A LOT of stress and that I ended up losing money on, I now tell them I no longer do cakes and
refer them to someone else. I felt really bad at first, but my sanity and my pocketbook are doing better now. Now I have
time to do them when I want to, not when the customer wants.Anyway, I know it is so hard, but you will burn yourself out if you don't make any money at it. If they don't want to pay
what you want, let them go somewhere else. If they really want you, they will pay what you ask.Hope this helps!
Holly :o)
Letty
I sure helped a lot...thanks! (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:46:24 am
12.86.222.129~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anonymous
Re: why do I always undercharge???
Wed Sep 3 2003 1:12:33 pm
66.6.105.112A guy I work with said he charges $20 per cake mix and his cakes are very simple. He said that is what his grandmother
always did as well.Letty
good to know (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:45:05 am
12.86.222.129~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Patty(FL)
Re: why do I always undercharge???
Wed Sep 3 2003 12:35:59 pm
24.26.115.74You are definitely not alone. I do the same thing all the time. I always feel guilty when I quote a price and then they start
haggling over other bakeries selling them for this much etc.....that I end up lowering my price. I have been doing this for
about 3 years now and am just starting to get enough guts to say "no". Most of my customers just pay what is on the price
list, but you always get a few winners in the bunch. You are right the freebies are always more fun. Good luck and learn to
stay firm on your prices.
Letty
I'll do that...thanks and good luck to you too (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:44:23 am
12.86.222.129~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Janice
I recently had a discussion with my husband about this...
Wed Sep 3 2003 11:06:43 am
152.163.252.166I haven't started selling my cakes yet, but have started to think of all the complications that it may entail. I learned that the
woman my family members currently go to charges only $12 for an 8" round. Too me, that is too cheap.You have to be firm in your prices. Of course people will naturally try to haggle the price down; they don't know or care
how much work it is on your part. I can understand why you would be upset, all that work to only make $7?? And when you
let them lower the price; you are lowering the worth of your time and effort!
Your time and effort are valuable! Good luckLetty
thanks for your advice (nm)
Thu Sep 4 2003 8:43:31 am
12.86.222.129Melinda
Oh My! I could have written that post!
Wed Sep 3 2003 9:32:35 am
209.240.198.63Word for word!! I do the EXACT same thing! I recently posted re: my prices and trying to get an idea what everyone else
charges. That gave me a little more courage to charge what I feel is fair, but I STILL find myself doing it.Just this past weekend, a lady that goes to my Church (an elderly lady) called wanting a VERY last minute wedding cake
for some of her family that were coming in from out of town to get married at our Church. She said it was to be a small
affair..only 20 people or so, but thought she'd order enough cake for 35, plus the top tier for them to save. When she asked
my price, I told her that I have a $50 minimum on tiered cakes but that I would also take it to her house and set it up for that
price (she only lives a few minutes away from me). She kinda acted like it was a little high, but heistantly agreed. Now,
yesterday she calls and leaves a msg that she wants the bottom tier to be white, the middle tier to be choc and the top tier to
be white???? What??? Where did this middle tier come from? And apparently, I don't have enough guts to call her up and
say.."uhm, if you want THREE tiers of cake, it will certainly be more than $50!" Plus in the msg, she said "do whatever
design I wanted, but that the bride wanted pink and purple flowers on the tops of each tier. Arrgh!!Anyway, I know I wasn't any help at all...but I wanted you to know that you aren't alone!
Letty
thanks for sharing...
Wed Sep 3 2003 10:02:45 am
129.111.2.59I do feel better knowing I'm not the only one doing this. I can totally relate to your story. Good luck with the 'middle tier'.
Tuesday September 9. 2003
Letty
Thanks to all who participated in the pricing discussion...I have taken on such a different attitude about my cakes, it's incredible. I thank all of you who participated in the
discussion last week. Before the 'talk,' I had reached a level where I thought i was charging too much for my cakes.
Consequently, I lowered my prices to the point where I was very unhappy. Now, after hearing all of your opinions, I
have re-done my price list and have come up with prices that have made me happy to be in business. This week
alone, I have three orders that are way above what I used to charge. I quoted my price and told the customer that if
they wanted a custom-made quality cake, that they could call me back to confirm their order. I left absolutely no
room for haggling. It felt so good! I was confident when I quoted the price and made sure they knew that they
would be getting what they paid for. I now tell my customers that I do not do grocery store cakes, therefore, I don't
have grocery store prices. They told me that that's why they came to me. I am feeling much more confident about
my prices. Thanks again for giving me the boost I needed. I'm sure I will lose some customers because my prices
are higher than grocery stores, but I am definitely OK with that. Having a couple of orders here and there, which
make it worthwhile for me, is better than a bunch which only cause my grief. Here's to everyone having a great
day!
Letty
-------------------------ends Letty'sQUESTION 9/13/00
Ezbake
I would like everyone's opinion on how you go about pricing your cakes. Any input would be appreciated. I am new to cake decorating and feel that i am not charging enough. Thanks
REPLIES:
Theresa
The first thing you want to do is call some local bakeries and find out what they charge. I called some expensive bakeries, grocery store bakeries, and average bakeries. Then I came somewhere in between. Remember though, you should compare apples for apples. And what I mean by that is for example, in my area a bakery's 1/2 sheet cake is equivalent to an 11 x 15 cake that I make. Since I call this size cake 1/3 sheet, I indicate on the brochure that this cake is equivalent to a bakery's 1/2 sheet. This way when they say that they can get a 1/2 sheet cake for say $30 at the bakery and your 1/2 sheet might be $40, they know that your 1/2 sheet is bigger. I charge $25 for my 1/3 of a sheet, so I am actually cheaper than the bakery they might have considered going to.Victoria
Theresa had a good suggestion, to see what the bakeries charge. When I was a beginner, I didn't charge enough because I wanted business, but then when you raise your prices, some people squawk. Pricing certainly depends on your area. I'm in rural Ohio and we don't get half as much as people in cities, especially in places other than midwest. Are you wanting prices on birthday or wedding cakes? I'm charging $19 for one mix (8" round or 9x13 sheet cake, $26 for 2 mixes, $32 for 3 mixes.) If they want figure piping, I charge extra. Mostly I do weddings and try not to do too many birthday cakes because the money is not as good.
Baking Sue
My prices go 22.50, 37.50, 69.50. Do you charge differently for weddings? My base price for wedding is 2.50 per person, goes up from there depending on flavors, fillings and embellishments. I live in CT.
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Victoria
Yes, I charge more for wedding cakes, about $1.40-$l.65 per slice for standard cakes, more for special flavors, fondant etc. And they tell me I'm expensive. I'd love to get $2.50 per slice!!!QUESTION 9/5/00
Ann s.
i wonder how you all determine the differences in pricing (per serving for wedding cake quotes) between your basic flavors and special flavors (for those of you who doctor mixes)? for example, if you charge $2.00/serving for basic white, yellow, chocolate..., what do you charge for carrot cake, cakes with alcohol, etc?also, what are your prices for special fillings and icings, as opposed to basic ones?
RESPONSES
Anna W.
Premium cake flavors are .25 more, premium fillings and icings are .50 more than base price (mine is $2/slice).
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Marida
Ann, a lot of pricing has to do with the area in which you live. I do not charge extra for doctoring cake mixes. I do charge extra for carrot cake with cream cheese icing and white chocolate pound cake with white chocolate icing.
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Deborah
wedding cake price
Wed Oct 11 04:35:42 2000
I know that this question has probable been asked dozens of times. I would like to know what kind of prices you guys would use for a 3 tier stacked wedding cake
with rolled fondant icing would cost? This cake feeds over 100 people and has different flavors for each layer.I hate to price anything I do. I always feel like I lose out in the end.
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Renee S.
I charge $3 per slice for fondant starting price. That is for my basic flavors and buttercream filling. I have some cake flavors/fillings/icings that make the cake go up .25 cents per slice. I don't charge extra for different flavors on each tier.
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Bakingsue
Re: wedding cake price
I agree with Marida, you need to establish a price list and stick to it. This isn't easy to do, but once you get it done, it makes your life so much less stressful. Just make sure you set your prices high enough so you are actually making some money, LOL. In my area (CT) my base price for wedding cakes start at 2.50 and go up from there. For a fondant cake it would probably be in the $3.25 range. I'm dong a very small wedding cake this weekend, 12" & 8", white with raspberry butter cream center, $2.50 pp, $220.00 total cost delivered. Hope this helps and good luck!!
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Marida
Deborah, you need to establish a price list for your cakes and stick to it. I would check around to see what the going price for cakes is in your area and then set my prices accordingly. Homebakers can usually get more for their cakes then a bakery or grocery. I charge $2.50 per slice for wedding cakes in my area.
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KarenS
sheet cake pricing
Tue Oct 10 14:02:48 2000
I have been bringing in cakes for my department at work and sharing what is left over with the rest of the people in our building. The cakes are so much better than the grocery store where they normally pick them up, so everyone says. People have been asking our HR to have me start furnishing the cakes.They are starting a new benefit by providing a cake once a month to celebrate birthdays and have asked me to do them.
I called around to 3 of our grocery store chains for prices and the sizes of the cakes for those prices.
Kroger in the city where I live called the 7x11-1/2 pan size a 1/4 sheet and the 11x15 a 1/2 sheet. The store (Busch) where my work normally gets the cakes from (smaller city) calls their 9x13 a 1/4 sheet and double the 1/2 sheet (I don't have the dimensions). Both 1/4 sheets are priced the same. The other grocery store could not give me the dimensions.
The cakes at Bushes that they have out to buy look small, but since I am just starting to do them I cannot recognize what size it is off hand.
I created my price list using Kroger since that is where I am from and didn't want to sell them below the grocery store. But I'm afraid where I work will think I am cheating them. I told them that my prices were based on Kroger's.
What would you do?
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Renee S.
There is no way that we can compete with grocery store prices. My prices are over the grocery store prices maybe by about 50% (I'm guessing here). I tell my customers that up front. Unless you live in a really low income area, I would start higher than the grocery store. I know you want business when you are starting out, but if you charge too low, you will get burned out making these cakes for practically nothing and end up resenting it. I had a lady ask me to make a full sheet the other week. That is two 12 x 16 cakes side by side. That is a BIG cake!! She wanted the top to look like a golf course. I told her it would be $80, because I charge $40 for each half sheet and said she might want to go to one of those wholesale clubs etc. I knew she didn't want to spend that much. But there is no way I would deal with a cake that size and that decoration for less. That was a good deal to start with.
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Melanie
Sheet cake pricing
I charge a little more than the local grocery stores do. After all, you custom decorate, which is more than Kroger will do, and your cakes taste better!
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Bakingsue
Bake the cake, let them try it and give them your price. It's their call. You are not cheating them. You bring a great cake to work with you (they don't have to pick it up) and I am sure it is waaaay better than the grocery store. Don't let them hassle you, your price is your price.
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Bethany
White choc. cake pricing?
Sat Oct 7 22:29:12 2000
Just curious as to how much you charge for a 2-layer 8" white choc. cake w/w.c. icing, both made from scratch? I made one today for fun and my MIL told me it was good, and she bets I could probably get $15 for it. I told her that if I only got $15 for it I wouldn't bother, as I spent close to $5 on w.choc. alone (yep, I know the "good" stuff is way more!) I only decorate as a hobby, so I don't sell many cakes, but I know here I could get at least $15-20 or more for a 9x13 sheet cake from a mix. I know prices depend upon location, but like I said, I was just curious. :o)
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$30.00 in my area. nt :) — Bakingsue
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Anna W.
About $24 for 8" white chocolate cake with white chocolate Italian Meringue Buttercream.
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Sue
Pricing and Servings
Tue Oct 24 11:58:25 2000
I'm trying to get my website finished, and want to include information on
pricing. I've decided pretty much what I'm going to charge per serving, but
I'm having problems determining the number of servings each size of cake
will yield.I have the Wilton charts for Party slices, but they seem overestimated. Does
anyone know what size a party slice is considered to be? Does anyone know of
another chart, or have a chart they use to determine number of servings that
they know is accurate?I would greatly appreciate any information you can share!
Treva
Re: Pricing and Servings
Tue Oct 24 14:20:41 2000
Party size servings are usually 1 1/2" x 2" (4" deep cakes). For a 2" deep
cake that would be 2" x 3".Most charts only give wedding size pieces (1" x 2"). Sheet cakes are easy.
Just divide the total inches by the size of the piece of cake. For example a
12x18 pan. You would multiply 12 x 18 = 216. Divide that by the top (area)
of the piece of cake. A 2x3 would be 6. You get 36 pieces.Round cakes are trickier. Here's a formula you can use to calculate # of
servings for any size serving. Take your pan size and divide that number in
half. Let's use a 12" for example. Divide in half you get 6. Multiply that
number by itself. (6x6=36) Multiply that number times pi(3.14) (36 x
3.14=113.04) Divide that number by top (area) of serving size. For a 4" deep
cake a party size serving would be 1 1/2 x 2. So it would be 1 1/2 x 2 = 3"
divided into 113.04. You get about 37 servings. If your servings were 2x2.
The area of the top of the serving would be 4". And you would divide that
into the 113.Hopefully that makes a little sense. It's handy to know so that you can
calculate any size serving you like.