Date: December 4th, 1998 11:24:07
From: Claudia
e-mail: cakeshop@galstar.com
Subject: Re: Re: fondant bows on a wedding cake
When I want to make gumpaste out of fondant I use 1/2 to 1 tsp. gum
trag. or CMC per POUND of fondant.

Date: December 5th, 1998 07:01:22
From: jenny
e-mail: vstone1037@aol.com
Subject: Re: Best way to cut wooden dowel rods???
go to your husbands tool box and get a pair of medium side cut pliers to cut your dowel rods I've been doing this for over 15 years.This cuts them clean and it is quick. the idea of using straws would worry me to death. Give this a try

Date: December 7th, 1998 05:27:36
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: refund question?
So they did eat the cake????? And you did check your notes to be sure you did make the mistake????? In that case, I guess I would probably offer a $50 refund - $100 maybe if it was a really expensive cake, but considering that you had trouble getting your money on time and the extra cost for the cake topper, I wouldn't go any further. Did she actually ask for a refund or do you just think this would appease her and keep her quiet? I know when you live in a small area, you hate to have bad rumors started. Sometimes, people just want to see what they can get for "nothing". Good Luck and let us know how you resolved this.

Date: December 7th, 1998 12:52:33
From: Jackie
e-mail: nelson@desupernet.net
Subject: refund question?
I just had a Bride's mother call me to inform me that I made the wrong
flavor cake for them this past weekend! Yikes! Huge error on my
part *blush*. Anyway, so what do I do? She said the cake was very
good-just not what the bride wanted. This was a fairly expensive
cake-that wasn't paid in time, plus I had to 2-day air ship her
ornament! So, despite what a pain these people were.....how much, if
anything, should I refund? Thanks for your suggestions!

Jackie

Date: December 9th, 1998 12:28:34
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: refund question?
Boy, you have gotten advice from one extreme to the other. I definately think you owe them something if it was your mistake, but I wouldn't refund the entire amount unless the flavor you might could not be eaten by the bride or groom due to allergies or something. What did the mom say when she called? Was she just informing you, was she upset, did she ask for a refund? Most of what they are paying for is the decorating, not the cake itself, so I would probably refund 30-50%, depending on how wrong the flavor was and how upset they seemed. And I would guess maybe you need to make sure you use clear, detailed order forms, stay organized, and double-check everything before you start the cake next time.

Date: December 8th, 1998 10:39:39
From: Stephanie
e-mail: starrcakes@sssnet.com
Subject: Re: refund question?
Being that it was in fact YOUR mistake I would give back 100%.
Unfortunatly this is one you will have to eat and learn from.
Of course they would eat the cake it was their only choice.
i am sure they could not have called you at the time of the cutting and
told you that it was wrong and you could have took over the exact one
that they ordered.
We all make mistakes and unfortunatly we will all make more ...

Date: December 8th, 1998 09:20:32
From: Laura
e-mail: mcneil@interpath.com
Subject: Re: refund question?
Maybe you could offer a free BD or Holiday cake to them to make up for
the mistake as they did eat all the cake and you should not have to
refund any to them. A free cake may make them feel better and be happy.
Don't feel bad, we all have made this mistake at one time or another.
Good Luck, I hope it works out for you.

Date: December 9th, 1998 01:44:20
From: Jackie
e-mail: nelson@desupernet.net
Subject: Re: refund question?
Thanks for all your advice everyone....I knew I could count on the
friends on the message board for help! The bride's mother commented
that the cake was wonderful-all the fondant bows were lovely, and it was
very moist-but the bride was just upset because it wasn't what she
wanted. I was a bit annoyed that she caused me so much trouble with not
paying on time(the florist didn't get paid on time either), then I had
to absorb the price of air-shipping her ornament-then she expected ME to
pick up the cake parts yet! (it's on the contract that THEY need to
return it to ME)It must be Murphy's Law that the "pain" customer is the
one that has something goes wrong! Anyway...she is a fellow business
person in our community, so I picked up the cake part with no complaint
and refunded her $100.00.

 Thank goodness this was her only daughter! :)

 Jackie

Date: December 9th, 1998 04:51:25
From: Jennifer
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: refund question?
"If they ate the cake (used the product, etc.) and they had no problem
with it as it was, then they are implicitely saying that they accepted
the product they were given. It can't be returned for refund or
exchange. So they get no refund. However..."

I really disagree with this. A wedding cake is not the same as a shirt or other object that can be returned and exchanged. The wedding was already going on when the mistake was discovered. They could hardly call her up to exchange the cake, or reschedule the reception for a later date to have the right cake. They either had to serve that cake, or no cake at all, which isn't much of a choice as far as I'm concerned. And whether or not they were ideal customers is irrelevant; we should always try do our best for each and every customer. Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes.

Date: December 9th, 1998 05:51:51
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: refund question?
Was she happy with the $100 refund or did she make any comment? Sounds like one of those that just want to see what they can get for nothing! We all have them sooner or later. Since I have a bridal shop, I run into this now and then with other aspects of the wedding, too. Not long ago, I had some "BIG" guys for wedding tuxedoes. There were a few things we had to get exchanged since these guys weren't petite! My tux company is always happy to oblige when I need something exchanged and we got everyone taken care of. Well, the bride called the tux company and told them she thought they should refund part of her money. They told her that was between her and me. After the wedding, I waited for her to ask me for a refund - she never did! I think she just thought the company has lots of money so therefore, they would refund her some. They told me to do whatever I had to to please her and let them know. Of course, I didn't tell her this. I was prepared to tell her that we had bent over backwards and got the problems all solved before the wedding - therefore, I could not see that a refund was necessary.

Date: December 9th, 1998 12:32:13
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: refund question?
That would never work around here. In a small area, if someone found out I gave back the whole 100% of the price, the next one would probably find something wrong with hers, too. No way!! I feel you would be setting yourself up for everyone to find something wrong so they wouldn't have to pay for the cake. I can see giving part of the price back because it was her fault for making the wrong flavor, but after all, how many times have you had a bride who just can't make up her mind on flavors anyway??? I've had several. I limit the flavors to 2 and they usually only have a choice of about 4. The more flavors you have in a cake, the more chance of running out of cake (yes, I have heard of this happening) because people want to try each flavor. Besides that, it is easier for the cake cutter to only have to worry about 2 flavors. I stand by my first post that I wouldn't give back more than $100 just because of flavor. Now if the cake fell, wasn't decorated the way the bride wanted, etc., etc., then maybe more compensation, but not this time.

Date: December 9th, 1998 12:33:20
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: refund question?
What did you decide to do?

Date: December 9th, 1998 12:53:24
From: Diane B.
e-mail: Pippingirl@aol.com
Subject: Re: refund question?
I don't have a cake business, but I do work in mail order and we make
mistakes, too. Goodness, who and what business doesn't?

First, I'd check all my paperwork. Did you have it written down
somewhere that they wanted a particular flavor? You should; if it is
on paper, than you made a mistake and should have to compensate them
for it. They get a refund.

However...

If they ate the cake (used the product, etc.) and they had no problem
with it as it was, then they are implicitely saying that they accepted
the product they were given. It can't be returned for refund or
exchange. So they get no refund.

However...

You want to be nice and have a happy customer. You want word-of-mouth
to be good. You don't a reputation for being close-minded and unfair.
So you want to give a refund. But they didn't even make the contracted
payments on time. Did you have to cover the cost of the 2Day Air
shipment? Was it because of an error on the part of the customer that
it had to be shipped at all? Sounds like someone who made your life a
bit more difficult than they needed to. So you don't want to give a
refund.

It all balances out. You goofed. THEY goofed. Everybody made
everybody else's life a bit miserable. So I'd have a frank talk with
the customer. "I did this...you did this...it all kind of got a little
messy because of both of us...I guess we're all human. How about
this..." and then I'd either offer a partial refund or do as someone
else suggested and give them a freebie.

Personally, the freebie would be preferable. Call it a "do-over" and
start again with the customer. Then their last encounter with you will
be a good one.
 
 

Date: December 9th, 1998 08:21:11
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: Re: refund question?
I, too, would have given them 100%. I had an experience once where the
hotel wrapped a vacumn cleaner cord around the table and turned my cake
completely upside down. They called me to fix it and I did the best I
could but I believe the hotel should have reimbursed them for the cake.
Of course they ate it what other choice would they have?

Date: December 10th, 1998 08:35:42
From: Dolores
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Best way to cut wooden dowel rods???
Sorry...no time to read all the answers...but we carry a special little
saw. I used it regularly and it made the job so much easier...before I
went to using straws. It is on our web site - I think even a
picture...under WEDDING

Date: December 10th, 1998 10:52:25
From: Jody
e-mail: RunyanFmly@aol.com
Subject: Re: refund question?
Hi, I realize that this is after the fact, but was curious on a couple
of points: How many tiers was this cake and was it all one flavor or
several different flavors? Was it just one tier that was a wrong flavor
or the whole cake? It would definitely make a difference in how much
refund I would give them.

Date: December 12th, 1998 09:25:39
From: Kay
e-mail: cakesavvy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Do you use warm or cold water?
Hi Carolyn,

I use very warm water in my cake mixes. Mainly I do this because I never remember to let my eggs get to room temp before I use them, so I figure the water makes up for the cold eggs. Best wishes, Kay

Date: December 12th, 1998 09:42:10
From: Jennifer
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Do you use warm or cold water?
I always use cold water, because any recipe I've seen that specifies says cold. I wouldn't think you would want to activate the baking soda/powder (I always forget which is which) too soon, because you would loose too much of the release air when you were mixing it and pouring it into the pans. But if your cakes come out fine, then you must be doing something right! As far as cakes talking to me, well that hasn't happened yet, and I would take it as a sign that I needed a vacation, LOL.

Date: December 12th, 1998 08:42:36
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Do you use warm or cold water?
Years ago when I started making cakes, a lady told me that she used warm (not hot - maybe a little warmer than lukewarm) water in her cakes rather than cold because it activated the baking powders faster. I have always done that. My daughter looks at me like I am nuts when I tell her to be sure to use the warmer water. What's your opinion? Do you think it's an old wive's tale or true?

Also, she told me that when you take cakes out of the oven after you have tested them and they test done, that they will "talk to you" if they are done (make a sizzling noice) so I have always "listened" to my cakes. My daughter rolls her eyes on this one, too! Doesn't do any harm, so why not?

Date: December 13th, 1998 04:40:57
From: Barbara
e-mail: sambar@ctesc.net
Subject: Re: Do you use warm or cold water?
I sometimes talk to my cakes! But I've never had one talk back!!

Date: December 14th, 1998 11:05:27
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Do you use warm or cold water?
hi carolyn;

i have been a *firm* believer in cold water because everything i have
ever read said so.
however -- last night i had to start baking totally unplanned and had
cold eggs so i used what ever temp water that came out of the tap (i
had just washed dishes so it was hot) and the cakes turned out just
fine. from now on i won't worry about it :)

and carolyn, since you don't have a voice maybe your ears are more
sensitive than ours (i *know* they are more than mine as i only have
about 45% hearing left) as i have never heard a cake talk to me ---
other than to say 'i'm falling and can't get up'!!!!
lynne

Date: December 15th, 1998 10:57:26
From: Jody
e-mail:
Subject: Why room temp eggs?
The only time my eggs are room temperature is if I leave them out
accidentally!! LOL (and then I usually throw them out!)

I have always used my eggs right out of the refrigerator and my cakes
have never seemed to suffer from it. Is there a special reason why they
are supposed to be room temp?

Thanks!

btw -- I usually use my water straight out of the tap not paying any
attention to the temp.

Date: December 15th, 1998 06:39:33
From: Barbara
e-mail: sambar63@ctesc.net
Subject: Re: Why room temp eggs?
This may shock some of you, but when we had our shop, the "egg lady"
delivered our eggs and she told us they could be left out in the room
for several days without having to worry about them. Sometimes during
extra busy times, we just didn't have enough fridge space for the boxes
and boxes of eggs she would deliver, so we would fill the fridge and
use the others first. So now when I'm baking over several days, I just
leave them on my counter. That way they are always room temp :) and
we never poisoned anyone!!!

Date: December 18th, 1998 10:06:41
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: Re: Sheet cakes in addition to wedding cake
Hi, Jennifer: My wedding cakes are $2.00 a slice and the sheet cakes
are $1.00 so, if they are for a real large wedding, the saving is pretty
significant and if they are going to be served from the kitchen I only
put shells along the top and bottom. If you are talking sheet cakes for
weddings for 150 persons or less they really don't save that much and
usually put it all into the wedding cake. Most all of our sheet cakes
are filled and sometimes they will get it in chocolate if there is no
chocolate in the main wedding cake.

Date: December 18th, 1998 11:45:47
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Sheet cakes in addition to wedding cake
I charge straight across the board whether it is all in tiered cake or some sheet cake. I usually decorate each piece of a sheet cake (1 layer) with a rosebud or whatever matches the wedding cake decor. I always tell them the reason I charge the same across the board is that it takes me nearly as long to do that sheet cake with a decor on each piece as it does to do another tier. I charge $1.50 per serving.

Also, if I were you, I would at least change that top tier to a 6" rather than an 8" - it will look a lot more balanced. In fact, a 6", 10", and 14" would look better than the 12" on the bottom. An 8", 10", and 12" are almost straight up and down. Not counting the top tier (my gift to bride), I figure the 10" and 14" serve 100 - the other cake a 10" and 12" would serve 75.

Date: December 18th, 1998 05:09:41
From: Jennifer
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Sheet cakes in addition to wedding cake
Yes, if you do regular sheet cakes, it will be obvious. But, if you do two layer cakes, then they are cut into slices, not squares, and will look like the sllices served from the main cake. As for decoration, if you are charging the same per serving for the sheets as the main cake, then I feel like they should be decorated, too. If they are not decorated, and they really don't need to be other than borders, then I would charge less per serving than for the main cake.

Date: December 18th, 1998 04:00:52
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: Sheet cakes in addition to wedding cake
When we do sheet cakes I usually put the shells on the top and bottom,
even though I know the cakes will be cut in the kitchen. I do not put
any other decorations on them. Sometimes the bride will use the sheet
cake as a groom's cake and in thast instance we would be decorating it
for the groom. Most of the time when we do sheet cakes it is for a very
large wedding (350 to 400) and the bride has picked out a large cake and
the overflow goes into the sheet cake. I once had someone from church
ask me if I could do a wedding cake for 1,000. I couldn't believe it.
Anyway, we did a large wedding cake and several sheet cakes and the
people at church were very happy because they could get started with
slicing the cake prior to the couple cutting the real thing.

Date: December 18th, 1998 02:00:06
From: ann
e-mail: ann-mosher@uiowa.edu
Subject: Sheet cakes in addition to wedding cake
I do not usually do wedding cakes, but am doing one January 2. The
bride wants an 8,10 and 12" round and the rest in sheet cakes to be
served from the kitchen. I have heard of this being done, but do not
quite get how it is not obvious that the sheet cake is NOT the real
wedding cake. Wouldn't the shape of the slice be clearly different? My
big question is how to decorate the sheet cake. The wedding cake will
have buttercream or royal icing roses (not decided yet). Do these need
to be on the sheet cake or do I just ice a sheet cake with the same
color as the wedding cake, but with no decorations? Thanks! ann